Crest-Vue Chinese Cresteds,LLC
"Breeding Quality Consistently"
CC story/Our Statement
Our side of the STORY about us and our kennel located at: http://www.mongoshi.de/scientific.php
In April of 2011, we had had an agreement between myself and a well known, respected Kennel in Germany. Our agreement was for the owners of this kennel to arrange and pay to ship Mongoshi K'Ching "Kash" (approx 4 months of age at the time) to us in exchange for an older puppy from us named "Smiley" (Crest-Vue So Grin'N Bare It). Smiley was approx 8-9 months old at the time the deal was made--so he was moreless full grown at the time--and well on his way to being an American Champion. The agreement was for the pup "Kash" in exchange for "Smiley" AS an AMERICAN CHAMPION as an even trade (plus SMILEY's shipping to Germany). We fully expected Kash to be of good quality and character to show and later use in our successful showing and breeding program. When we received Kash--we had NO idea he was going to be as big as he was when he arrived! The breeders of Kash had sent several baby photos of our much antisipated-new arrival, but we all know it is impossible to know exact size by photos. I had questioned his size and I never ONCE, was told how tall he was nor did I expect him to be "pygmy sized" (whatever THAT is as stated on the mongoshi website story about us)!! The only comments I ever remember getting were things like "dont you trust us" and "our dogs grow early and then stop". So as to not upset the breeders (which is easy to do), I trusted in them and went ahead with our arrangement. In one of our first emails to the breeders after Kash was in our home I expressed concern about the pups size and character. They assured me that this line grows early-and then stops. They even told me that they were not feeding the pups a high protein puppy food as to not encourage early growth??!!
At the time of arrival, I was not worried about Kash's temperament, after all he had just been shipped half way around the world and the breeder stated previously that Kash had a solid character. As breeder of this pups mom (who was bought from us-by these "breeders") as a BREEDING bitch only, who also, in my opinion was a bit "shy", we knew that I would have my work cut out for me--but I was willing to do it! Kash went with us to shows in May (including our National Specialty in OK City in mid-May) for socializing only. Kash was very afraid of anyone who would walk up to the expen and would literally try to jump out when someone approached the expen. I would often take him out and have people pet him and talk to him. Everyone that saw him asked how big he was and was shocked when I told them he was under 6 months old! We wont even talk about what they said about his temperament! I also regularally walked him inside Home Depot, Lowes, and several parks that all allowed dogs. But needless to say-Kash at 7.5 months old was measured by us, on video which were sent to the breeders, showing that he was 14.5 inches at the shoulder (in July, 2011). We also sent videos of Kash's movement (on leash) to his breeders--which THEY asked us to take off of YouTube-and we did. The movement videos showed that Kash did NOT have correct movement and balance that we all strive for in this breed. So between this kids SIZE, temperament, AND incorrect movement-we made the hard decision to NOT keep and use Kash in our breeding program. And because we did not feel that Kash was a "fair" trade for our now American AND Canadian CHAMPION "Smiley" our agreement was no longer vaild. (Our Smiley has a wonderful temperament and is WITHIN size for our standard--Kash did not have a temperament we would want to breed--nor was he within our standard for size OR the written standard for proper movement--so why would we want to trade?)
As is customary, we offered Kash back to his breeders at their expense-OR we offered to neuter/place Kash here so that they would not have have to pay to have him shipped back. Of course, they were upset with us that WE were not willing to pay to have, what we felt was a pet quality dog, shipped back. They decided to print THEIR side of things on their website and we felt it only fair to state OUR side-the TRUE side of this story. Our agreement was they would pay to have Smiley shipped to them after he was an AM CH--so instead of paying for Smiley--we asked that THEY pay shipping to get their own dog back as they had told us that they had already sold Kash to another "breeder". We hope that Kash has a wonderful life and makes someone very proud whether he be a loved pet, show dog, OR breeding dog. I loved this boy with all my heart--and only sent him back because in my MIND-it was the right "business decision". Had my heart had its way...Kash would be a much loved pet here until we found him a perfect forever home....
As for the debarking issue....when we had Kash debarked in early May (two weeks after we received him)--he was OUR dog and at the time we had no intention of sending him back to Germany. So like most of our dogs here, when he had retained baby teeth removed by our vet-we also had the vet debark Kash. This is a very controversal issue amoung animal owners, however it is NOT illegal or considered unethical here in the USA and many if not all the Crested breeders (as well as breeders of OTHER breeds) we know here in the USA, have some if not all--their dogs debarked. Its not just here in "Apache Junction" as the breeder of Kash would try and make you think. Also, if my memory serves me right...the other dogs these breeders received from us were also all DEBARKED. And their new owner LOVED it when they got them and even made mention that they wished they could do it there!! So this comment is only stated to try to make us look bad-but they knew the other dogs they got from us were also debarked--before they received them from us--and they still bought them from the breeders in Apache Junction!
As for any of their other "claims"...notice there are no photos of Kash having "bites" all over him (bites from WHAT-we have never had fleas so? Maybe he had some scratches from playing with other dogs (?)--which is highly encouraged here!). Nor are there any videos of him around strangers--only a pretty photo of him in their "garden" on the database showing his "deer in the headlights" panic look.
Fact is, sometimes pups just do NOT turn out as we expect them to. It should be the BUYERS decision whether they want to use a dog they bought (or in this case traded for). And it was OUR decision NOT to show or use Kash in our breeding program. Kash is a beautiful dog and we would not be writing this story today if he had turned out the way we EXPECTED. I am happy that our dog Smiley was not sent to Germany--and the Brauns have their dog back because they WANTED HIM BACK. We fullfilled our obligation by returning their dog--end of story. I am sorry that they are not happy to have their dog back safe, and happy-as they claim he is now. Kash's happiness is ALL we at Crest-Vue ever wanted and cared about!
UPDATE::: Now Mongoshi is claiming that the dogs they received from us were NOT healthy and had hereditary problems (eyes, knees, hips???). Where is the PROOF? If THAT was the case...WHY was "Vegas" bred once and "Champy" bred TWICE? And if they had all these problems--HOW did they get breeding licenses to use them in their program? And WHY would they use them? As for the third bitch they received from us, "Ever", (received on trade for our girl "Desi") we are VERY happy that this girl is prodcing well and is loved at Cool Crowds (see Ever here . Thank you for finding her a wonderful home! The ONLY problem we are aware of is that Vegas turned out to be a PLL carrier. And THAT test was not available until LONG after she was sent to Germany. Yes, all of them had soft temperaments I agree with that. But the Brauns were so confident that their breeding program was so strong in this area that they were willing to take the chance! As for teeth, yes Vegas, Champy, and Ever ALL had good bites--but did have missing teeth and the Brauns were aware of this BEFORE they bought the girls. Here in the USA, hairless dogs are permitted to have missing teeth as long as they have a level or scissior bite--which ALL three girls did. Vegas was less than 11.5 inches, Champy is around 12 inches, and last we knew Ever was around 12 inches--ALL within our breed standard!! Next complaint Brauns???????
The truth IS...look at how many dogs the Brauns have imported (and most later sold). Very few have been shown and titled (including dogs of their own breeding). WHY is that? They must all have problems too and not be show worthy--but are most definately BREEDING QUALITY-right?
UPDATE (Sept 22): We went through all our old emails from the Brauns. Here is an email we found sent to us on February 13, 2009 regarding Vegas and Champy's yearly health tests. They are a bit blurry as they were scanned, printed, sent to us, and then again by me today. They were inbedded files so I couldnt resize the entire document to fit on the page-so this is the best I can do for right now. Ever, to my knowledge, was never tested while in Germany and if she was-I never was told she had any problems, But according to her new home-she is correct in size, bite, PLL & PRCD clear and eye exam in 2011 was normal!! So for dogs the Braun's claim to have been SICK..all their tests look PERFECT-as I knew they would be--and still ARE!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another email we found to the Braun's saying we could not guarantee Champy to be a show dog because of temperament:
**Video of Kash moving
Some photos of Kash while in our life and home:
In April of 2011, we had had an agreement between myself and a well known, respected Kennel in Germany. Our agreement was for the owners of this kennel to arrange and pay to ship Mongoshi K'Ching "Kash" (approx 4 months of age at the time) to us in exchange for an older puppy from us named "Smiley" (Crest-Vue So Grin'N Bare It). Smiley was approx 8-9 months old at the time the deal was made--so he was moreless full grown at the time--and well on his way to being an American Champion. The agreement was for the pup "Kash" in exchange for "Smiley" AS an AMERICAN CHAMPION as an even trade (plus SMILEY's shipping to Germany). We fully expected Kash to be of good quality and character to show and later use in our successful showing and breeding program. When we received Kash--we had NO idea he was going to be as big as he was when he arrived! The breeders of Kash had sent several baby photos of our much antisipated-new arrival, but we all know it is impossible to know exact size by photos. I had questioned his size and I never ONCE, was told how tall he was nor did I expect him to be "pygmy sized" (whatever THAT is as stated on the mongoshi website story about us)!! The only comments I ever remember getting were things like "dont you trust us" and "our dogs grow early and then stop". So as to not upset the breeders (which is easy to do), I trusted in them and went ahead with our arrangement. In one of our first emails to the breeders after Kash was in our home I expressed concern about the pups size and character. They assured me that this line grows early-and then stops. They even told me that they were not feeding the pups a high protein puppy food as to not encourage early growth??!!
At the time of arrival, I was not worried about Kash's temperament, after all he had just been shipped half way around the world and the breeder stated previously that Kash had a solid character. As breeder of this pups mom (who was bought from us-by these "breeders") as a BREEDING bitch only, who also, in my opinion was a bit "shy", we knew that I would have my work cut out for me--but I was willing to do it! Kash went with us to shows in May (including our National Specialty in OK City in mid-May) for socializing only. Kash was very afraid of anyone who would walk up to the expen and would literally try to jump out when someone approached the expen. I would often take him out and have people pet him and talk to him. Everyone that saw him asked how big he was and was shocked when I told them he was under 6 months old! We wont even talk about what they said about his temperament! I also regularally walked him inside Home Depot, Lowes, and several parks that all allowed dogs. But needless to say-Kash at 7.5 months old was measured by us, on video which were sent to the breeders, showing that he was 14.5 inches at the shoulder (in July, 2011). We also sent videos of Kash's movement (on leash) to his breeders--which THEY asked us to take off of YouTube-and we did. The movement videos showed that Kash did NOT have correct movement and balance that we all strive for in this breed. So between this kids SIZE, temperament, AND incorrect movement-we made the hard decision to NOT keep and use Kash in our breeding program. And because we did not feel that Kash was a "fair" trade for our now American AND Canadian CHAMPION "Smiley" our agreement was no longer vaild. (Our Smiley has a wonderful temperament and is WITHIN size for our standard--Kash did not have a temperament we would want to breed--nor was he within our standard for size OR the written standard for proper movement--so why would we want to trade?)
As is customary, we offered Kash back to his breeders at their expense-OR we offered to neuter/place Kash here so that they would not have have to pay to have him shipped back. Of course, they were upset with us that WE were not willing to pay to have, what we felt was a pet quality dog, shipped back. They decided to print THEIR side of things on their website and we felt it only fair to state OUR side-the TRUE side of this story. Our agreement was they would pay to have Smiley shipped to them after he was an AM CH--so instead of paying for Smiley--we asked that THEY pay shipping to get their own dog back as they had told us that they had already sold Kash to another "breeder". We hope that Kash has a wonderful life and makes someone very proud whether he be a loved pet, show dog, OR breeding dog. I loved this boy with all my heart--and only sent him back because in my MIND-it was the right "business decision". Had my heart had its way...Kash would be a much loved pet here until we found him a perfect forever home....
As for the debarking issue....when we had Kash debarked in early May (two weeks after we received him)--he was OUR dog and at the time we had no intention of sending him back to Germany. So like most of our dogs here, when he had retained baby teeth removed by our vet-we also had the vet debark Kash. This is a very controversal issue amoung animal owners, however it is NOT illegal or considered unethical here in the USA and many if not all the Crested breeders (as well as breeders of OTHER breeds) we know here in the USA, have some if not all--their dogs debarked. Its not just here in "Apache Junction" as the breeder of Kash would try and make you think. Also, if my memory serves me right...the other dogs these breeders received from us were also all DEBARKED. And their new owner LOVED it when they got them and even made mention that they wished they could do it there!! So this comment is only stated to try to make us look bad-but they knew the other dogs they got from us were also debarked--before they received them from us--and they still bought them from the breeders in Apache Junction!
As for any of their other "claims"...notice there are no photos of Kash having "bites" all over him (bites from WHAT-we have never had fleas so? Maybe he had some scratches from playing with other dogs (?)--which is highly encouraged here!). Nor are there any videos of him around strangers--only a pretty photo of him in their "garden" on the database showing his "deer in the headlights" panic look.
Fact is, sometimes pups just do NOT turn out as we expect them to. It should be the BUYERS decision whether they want to use a dog they bought (or in this case traded for). And it was OUR decision NOT to show or use Kash in our breeding program. Kash is a beautiful dog and we would not be writing this story today if he had turned out the way we EXPECTED. I am happy that our dog Smiley was not sent to Germany--and the Brauns have their dog back because they WANTED HIM BACK. We fullfilled our obligation by returning their dog--end of story. I am sorry that they are not happy to have their dog back safe, and happy-as they claim he is now. Kash's happiness is ALL we at Crest-Vue ever wanted and cared about!
UPDATE::: Now Mongoshi is claiming that the dogs they received from us were NOT healthy and had hereditary problems (eyes, knees, hips???). Where is the PROOF? If THAT was the case...WHY was "Vegas" bred once and "Champy" bred TWICE? And if they had all these problems--HOW did they get breeding licenses to use them in their program? And WHY would they use them? As for the third bitch they received from us, "Ever", (received on trade for our girl "Desi") we are VERY happy that this girl is prodcing well and is loved at Cool Crowds (see Ever here . Thank you for finding her a wonderful home! The ONLY problem we are aware of is that Vegas turned out to be a PLL carrier. And THAT test was not available until LONG after she was sent to Germany. Yes, all of them had soft temperaments I agree with that. But the Brauns were so confident that their breeding program was so strong in this area that they were willing to take the chance! As for teeth, yes Vegas, Champy, and Ever ALL had good bites--but did have missing teeth and the Brauns were aware of this BEFORE they bought the girls. Here in the USA, hairless dogs are permitted to have missing teeth as long as they have a level or scissior bite--which ALL three girls did. Vegas was less than 11.5 inches, Champy is around 12 inches, and last we knew Ever was around 12 inches--ALL within our breed standard!! Next complaint Brauns???????
The truth IS...look at how many dogs the Brauns have imported (and most later sold). Very few have been shown and titled (including dogs of their own breeding). WHY is that? They must all have problems too and not be show worthy--but are most definately BREEDING QUALITY-right?
UPDATE (Sept 22): We went through all our old emails from the Brauns. Here is an email we found sent to us on February 13, 2009 regarding Vegas and Champy's yearly health tests. They are a bit blurry as they were scanned, printed, sent to us, and then again by me today. They were inbedded files so I couldnt resize the entire document to fit on the page-so this is the best I can do for right now. Ever, to my knowledge, was never tested while in Germany and if she was-I never was told she had any problems, But according to her new home-she is correct in size, bite, PLL & PRCD clear and eye exam in 2011 was normal!! So for dogs the Braun's claim to have been SICK..all their tests look PERFECT-as I knew they would be--and still ARE!
Champy Vegas
Message body
Hi Karen,
nice new puppies.
in attachement the yeartests ( eyes , Patella, Heart, and general ) of Vegas and Champy - both are well and in top condition
René
nice new puppies.
in attachement the yeartests ( eyes , Patella, Heart, and general ) of Vegas and Champy - both are well and in top condition
René
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Another email we found to the Braun's saying we could not guarantee Champy to be a show dog because of temperament:
Re: DJ and Champagne
Tuesday, January 22, 2008 3:11 PM
Message body
Thank you for your reply! .
Champy is a very nice bitch, but unfortunately--she
does NOT have a great show temperment. She is very
sweet and happy--but not at shows. ***** knew this and
wanted her anyway. So I do not know if you would be
interested in taking her or not. I just will not
guranatee that she will ever be a show dog.
Thanks,
Karen
--- mongoshi <info@mongoshi.de> wrote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AND an email the day the Brauns received Champy:
Champy is a very nice bitch, but unfortunately--she
does NOT have a great show temperment. She is very
sweet and happy--but not at shows. ***** knew this and
wanted her anyway. So I do not know if you would be
interested in taking her or not. I just will not
guranatee that she will ever be a show dog.
Thanks,
Karen
--- mongoshi <info@mongoshi.de> wrote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AND an email the day the Brauns received Champy:
Champy
Wednesday, March 5, 2008 6:07 AM
Message body
Now my husband back from Airport, DutyVet. and customs duty.
Champy is well and all ok. At the Moment she looks around in her new home.
No problems with our other dogs.
She is very very very pretty. 1000 Thanks for this woundeful Girl - she looks perfect - exactly my taste.
Wounderful body and hair.. she is a very freindly Girl.
Kisses Patricija :-* :-* :-*
Now we look forwart to Vegas .................. and DJ LOL LOL LOL
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Here is an email from Carina Stark (Kennel Cool Crowd/Sweden) about Ever-with her permission to share on my website:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Champy is well and all ok. At the Moment she looks around in her new home.
No problems with our other dogs.
She is very very very pretty. 1000 Thanks for this woundeful Girl - she looks perfect - exactly my taste.
Wounderful body and hair.. she is a very freindly Girl.
Kisses Patricija :-* :-* :-*
Now we look forwart to Vegas .................. and DJ LOL LOL LOL
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is an email from Carina Stark (Kennel Cool Crowd/Sweden) about Ever-with her permission to share on my website:
the thoughts & oppinions about crest-vue's 4ever & ever amen...
Saturday, September 24, 2011 2:48 AM
Message body
hi =)=)
here you have my ever-story...
in the end of november 2009 we picked up ever in germany. we immediatelly noticed that she was a very scared child & she practilly lived under our kitchen benches for the first months... she worked well with the other dogs though, and found her place among them.
there were no problems with the grooming, she accepted everything but her expression sain she hated it. she didn't want to be in a close distance to us for very long...
but slowly she started to lighten up and get more outgoing, this took quite some effort from us, but my god how happy we were when we reached the turning point =)=) this is also the reason why we didn't mate her untill this year. directly after she was mated she changed even more, wanted to sleep in our bed, wanted to cuddle a lot and and actually got a ego =) when the puppies arrived she was the best mom any of my litters ever had... she guarded her 4 girls like treasures & didn't want to leave them for eating or "call of the natures". she was totally super =)
and after had this litter she's more relaxed and we think it did her so well to have this litter.
about her compared to the breedstandard, i can say this:
- very correct size & proportions
- she moved freely and correct
- she's a bit hairy, but with a super skin... no pimples or greasy skin
- she has a beautiful well cut face with lovley eyes
- crest & socks are in the right place & in the right quality
- over all a good looking bitch with the right things in the right place
since i love her i could write nice words about her as long as you want... but what's written above is with "clear" eyes & my feelings for her is left aside =)
lots of love to you karen =) / carina
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
**Video of Kash moving
Some photos of Kash while in our life and home:
